This episode pulls back the curtain on one of the core foundations of EL Education: the Read, Think, Talk, Write framework. Rather than viewing it as a set of instructional steps, the conversation reframes this framework as a philosophy for learning—one that builds equity, accountability, and lifelong thinking habits for students.
Literacy Essentials – Best practices in literacy instruction
EL Education Curriculum (K–5):
https://curriculum.eleducation.org
EL Education — K–5 Literacy Resources
https://eleducation.org/resources
Overview: Read-Think-Talk-Write Cycle
Read-Think-Talk-Write: Integrating Literacy with Worthy Texts
They really talk about this framework as a philosophy. And when I read that, it made me stop and think about this is a philosophy. This is something that we will practice through school and then as adults, it's going to support us in our own lives. Students, need time to think and develop their thoughts about what they just learned so often. This might be a part of the cycle that's missed. This cycle allows students going deeper with their understanding all students have to again be accountable for their learning.
Welcome back to fuel up a place for conversations with and for those using el education as a resource to support k5 literacy learning, we are so excited to have you with us for this week's episode. Today we zoom in on the topic of the read, think, talk, write, framework. We hope today's talk serves as a pit stop, a chance to swing by for some fresh energy, insights, encouragement and celebration as we work together to do what's best for our learners, this is a chance to fuel up. So wherever this finds you today, we hope you are able to pull over, take a breath and crank it up in that spirit, here we go.
We are back at the table. Thank you for joining us today. We are talking about one of the foundations of El, the read, think, talk, write, framework. Katie, I feel like today is like going behind the curtain and looking at some of the structures of El. It kind of reminds me of the movie The Wizard of Oz. When the wizard comes out from the curtain at the end of the movie.
Remember that I do, and that is definitely what we're doing today. Yeah, we're kind
of pulling back the curtain and looking at one of the frameworks that El is built upon. And my hunch is some of our teachers who use this resource are aware of that framework, and probably some aren't, even those who have been in this resource for years. So our hope today is that after you spend a few minutes listening to our conversations, you walk away with an understanding of what their framework is, and you are able to see it in your lesson planning when you get into those daily lessons that we work with each day. Katie question for you, as we think about the four parts in the framework, read, think, talk and write. If you had to spend a day, a full day with one of them, reading, thinking, talking or writing, which one would you choose?
I'm chuckling a little bit because I think if my husband had to answer this, he would probably say talking. However, in my opinion, I would spend a full day reading. Full day reading. Yes, absolutely, curl up, get a few good books. Yes, reading would be my, my go to Yeah. What about you? Kevin?
So I think I would have said reading, reading is my second choice. I think I would have said that for sure as our first choice maybe a month ago. But I've been doing more journaling, nice and so like hitting the coffee shop early in the morning and grabbing a good cup of coffee and just having the journal out. And there is something therapeutic about doing some journaling at a coffee house with some good coffee. And so I think for today, at this point in life, I would go for a full day of writing. Wow.
So I'll meet you at the coffee shop. We'll both get our coffees. You can go write, and I can go read. That's true, perfect, yes, and I won't talk.
So if you happen to hear the words, read, think, talk, write, framework, and you're like, what is that? Let's take a minute to get grounded. And Katie, maybe the way we get grounded today is by just getting a common definition of the read, think talk write framework. So how would we define that?
Yes, so if we're going to define the read, think talk write framework, it would be defined as a powerful educational framework and strategy often used in literacy instruction that integrates reading, complex text with deep thinking, collaborative discussion and structured writing to build deep comprehension, synthesize evidence and develop strong arguments, moving students from initial engagement. To sophisticated evidence based communication. It's a cyclical process where reading worthy text leads to thinking about them, discussing ideas with peers, and finally articulating understanding through writing, enhancing learning and critical thinking across subjects.
That was a lot. That's a lot in there,
yeah, so it kind of gave some definition to those four parts. And the end of that, I felt really summarized it well, this idea of working with worthy text, talking about them, articulating understanding through writing. And you said the word cyclical, and I think that's an important word to highlight, because this process just doesn't end as you get to writing like it keeps coming back over and over again as we go through those four steps.
Yeah, I think that's really important. It repeats. Yep, almost every day we're doing
this, I like the word repeating better than cyclical. Cyclical cyclical is kind of hard to get off the tongue there Correct. We'll go with repeating. Let's go with repeating. Yes, okay, good decision made. Now that we are grounded, we are so excited to invite our guests to the table. This person is one of the most passionate advocates of effective literacy instruction that Katie and I know. A big welcome to Mary Johnson. Mary is a literacy consultant here at the Muskegon area. ISD Welcome to
fuel up, Mary. Oh, thank you. I'm so excited to be here
to get started. Katie, the first question is yours?
Well, welcome Mary. So excited to have you with us. All right, what is your go to snack or drink to fuel you up and get you moving.
So this might surprise both of you, but I love to be fueled up by a piece of sourdough bread or toast in the morning and a thin slice of my protein, my peanut butter, and then I chop up bananas and put it on top. And it is the best go to morning snack to give you energy.
Tasty, lovely.
Okay, so here's the follow up question to that. Okay, there's a movement with sourdough bread, like is this, are you into the homemaking of your sourdough bread?
Oh, Kevin, if you would ask my husband, I don't cook,
I don't cook, I don't bake, but I do buy it, so it's really good.
Okay, so sourdough bread with a thin spread of peanut butter with bananas on top.
Absolutely it has to be Jeff, yeah,
there's no other I might add that to my morning routine and see how it goes.
Yeah, now that we are all hungry for this incredible breakfast snack, we're going to put some music in the room. So Mary, what song would you crank up to the max to fuel you up and launch your day?
The song that really gets me going and maybe drives my husband a little crazy is we can be in an airport, a restaurant, an athletic event, because we do, like our athletic events, is can't stop that feeling by Justin Timberlake, yes, oh, that's a good one. That is a good one. And your feet start going, first you're tapping, and then you notice all this on your body moving, and then you're doing all this movement with your arms and your head. And then you might be standing up and starting that dance movement, but it brings so much joy energy, and it's everybody loves it. So if you're in a space, just watch others around you. You'll see toes tapping. Yes, everybody starts smiling. But it does also remind me of my students I worked with in intervention. I introduced that song to them, and I changed it to, can't stop that, can't stop that feeling for reading. And we changed the words, and they did a flash mob. Nice. And of course, they had to explain to me what a flash mob was, because I didn't know what that was. So they orchestrated it. After I taught them the song through reading, changed all the words, and they did a flash mob before school started and kids were coming off the bus, looking at them, then I had the music blaring, and it was so much fun. So that song is so much energy.
So if you need some joy in your life, I think we all need some joy, then consider putting on, can't stop that feeling by Justin Timberlake, and you could also use it for a flash mob. You sure. Just learned, and now we're ready to get into our topic for today, the read, think, talk, write, framework and Mary, we got grounded today by talking about the definition, and as you listen to that definition, any thoughts on that or anything to add.
I appreciated listening to that definition, because it also made me think about some reading I've been doing in and the resources within the El education, they really talk about this framework as a philosophy. And when I read that, it made me stop and think about this is a philosophy. This is something that we will practice through school and then as adults, it's going to support us in our own lives. Have to read things. We have to comprehend that in the real world too, right? And we also have to be able to think about it and write about it, but then articulate in words, especially in the professional world. So I'm excited that students are having access to be able to do all this practice in their schooling. So by the time they're ready to make their career decisions, they're ready to go.
So it's really is a framework, but taking it in, making it a philosophy. It's something as a teacher, you just do during your day, and students becomes a part of them as well,
and then they it can transcend. It doesn't even have to live just in the ELA block. It can live in math, it can live in all the others. And I think that's what you hear from teachers often, is that some of these routines are trans. You can just transfer it from one content area to the other, and you start to notice students, because they're so engrossed in this cycle that they're able then to do this independently. There's a lot of self regulation that you do with her on their own.
So this framework of these four pieces, read, think, talk, write, yes, el is built on this and doing it over and over for us, it just becomes a philosophy and a way of doing things that can transfer outside of that literacy block to other things we do, whether it's in different subjects, or even in things that happen outside of the classroom. Excited to dive deeper into those four parts today, but before we do that, we talked about what it is. Maybe we take a few minutes to talk about why it is. Why does this framework matter in the first place? As you think about the read, think, talk, write framework. Mary, if someone were to come up to you and say, Why is this framework important? What would you say
when I think about the framework, it provides equity for all students to engage. You cannot disengage. Everybody is accountable for their own learning, and the teachers provided, like all the scaffolds, the protocols to kind of facilitate student learning, right? Because when we think about it, the complex text is at the center, and that is the expert in the room. So when we start to think about our teachers are really taking a different role than maybe they've been used to in the past, facilitating thinking. So I think for me, I really appreciate the equity it brings to all students. So our ELL students, our students that are striving to be stronger in reading, even our students that are already successful in school, right with their reading and writing, they're still challenged. So everybody has that opportunity to become those strong readers and writers.
So building that equity in your classroom, but it also puts the learning back on the student versus the teacher.
I think my favorite part, Katie, when you just named that, was a year ago, Kevin and I, we were out at Georgia at a national conference, and I think my favorite part was watching 210 year old boys from the Bronx stand in front of 1800 adults and with piercing eyes, and they scanned the entire room, and they looked at each of us. I mean, I felt them looking at me, so I think we all did. And it was silent when they said, do not steal my learning. And that was like something that has forever stuck with me about El education and then the other program we have in the county too have the same similar structures. We might say things differently, but it's the same similar routines and structure for students to be successful.
How powerful? Yeah, I mean this. So this framework, just to go back to what we were talking about, provides equity for all of our kids. And there's some shifts in thinking as far not just for students, but for teachers and the leaders of that learning. What does it look like to lead? And this framework is a support to shift some of that learning from the teacher to the students. And we heard that plea from students at that conference in Atlanta, like, please don't steal our learning. We're going to unpack each one of these four steps to read, think, talk, write, and as we do unpack those, let that plea from their students represent all of our students that we support as we go through this so
and Kevin, I think one thing that I took away from that is I interviewed one of those students later in the evening, when they're still around, because they come back and they talk to us adults, you know, to try to teach us well too, as well. One thing I took away is when one of them said to me, it's like a video game. When I asked them, like grappling with it and they're learning and and they said, Don't steal the learning. And the child said, Well, think about a video game. Of course, I don't play video games because I'm not good at it. But he said, think about it as a video game. I keep playing the same game until I find success. So that's like my learning. I need to, I need to wrestle with it until I can really find success. And I thought, well, that. A neat analogy that I would have never thought of.
Yes, well, keeping that analogy in mind, let's jump into each part of this framework. And Mary, maybe what we do is we just start with the read, and we'll go in order and just dive a little deeper into each part of it. And so we kind of see it always goes in the sort of read, think, talk, right? But let's start with the first part read. As we think about the read, the first part of this framework, say more about that. What is this read part? Why is it there? And maybe, how does it play out?
Yeah, so I think that the thing that excites me is that the text is the expert, right? And then you're also hearing from teachers and students how they love the text, so they're craving the text that gives them so much to talk about. I think that in the read part, the one thing that teachers might find a little challenging is you're transitioning from being this, maybe state sage on the stage, to letting the text be the expert in the room, and now your role is shifting to being a facilitator. So you're giving these protocols, you're giving these opportunities to really help your students grow. So I think students, they're grappling with a text, and we have to be okay with them grappling. I mean, that's a mind shift change, because often we want to rescue so I think the big thing is letting them grapple, because they're going to have each other to grapple with, too and really chew on through this whole process. They'll have a chance to chew on their learning, and they'll they'll make modifications. They might not change, but they're usually flexible in their thinking.
Talk for a minute. You said the text is set as the expert in the room for somebody listening who's saying? I don't know what that means or who's saying. Tell me more about that. Like, how would you describe that? What does it mean to have the text as the expert in the room?
Yeah, that's a great question, Kevin, because I really think about the text and being that expert, it is going to be a complex text, so it's going to really intrigue the children. They want to learn more, right? And so when we think about that, being the mentor, if that's at the center of it, then the teacher can come along with some scaffolds to support the students to find success in there. So you, I think sometimes, when we've done read aloud, sometimes before, I don't know if any of you experienced that, it might have picked out my favorite. Maybe it was Junie B Jones, I'm not, I'm not knocking it, but it doesn't. It's not as rich to have conversations about right? It's a fun text to enjoy, for sure. But I think el education, what I love about it is they have these complex texts so that students can really get engrossed in their thinking and expand their thinking and learning through these complex text.
So the text being the expert in the room. Maybe another way to say that is this text is a complex text that's full of, you know, deep vocabulary, maybe multiple meetings, and the teacher is guiding the students through conversations and investigations and note taking with this text, and letting the text do the learning with a teacher on the side as a guide.
Yeah, and they're the kids constantly during this process, are going back in the text, looking for evidence, right? So it's really, it takes away, like it's not their opinion, but they're constantly going back to the text, so they're looking at rereading it, maybe changing their thinking at that point, learning vocabulary words, learning to really like dive deeper mining for the gist in the text as well, which
is such a compliment to the standards, right? Because so many of our standards require students to go back to that text for evidence. And so, you know, the working around this complex text and having the text as the expert in the room supports some of the work that the standards are requiring. And Katie, I'm thinking, this is a great pitch,
I think so I know where you're headed, so
it's not out yet, but the episode that'll be following this does a deep dive into complex text. So if you're listening to this, you know initial conversation with Mary, and you're like, Man, I recognize those anchor text in my room. And yes, they felt really challenging. Oh, is that on purpose? Yes, it is. And if you want to know more, be sure to tune into the the next episode, because we're going to dive in with a guest talking more about that.
And one other thing that I thought was interesting in this part, and I hadn't thought about this before, is the collective thinking and the anchor charts that happen during this process. So when I was looking at that, I thought, you know, so often we might hear teachers say, I want to do the anchor chart the night before, and I'll write everything down. That's great in preparation. However, there's that missed opportunity for collective thinking and getting the students thoughts on that page instead of our thoughts as a teacher, I know it's challenging to write and do it right on the spot, but that was one thing that came up in this section for me, for the reading about the anchor charts, and it was just mind blowing,
which really goes back to that mindset. The teacher as the guide. Use these books, that's what they're designed for, to be the expert, so you can come alongside the students, but put the learning back on them. And really what you're doing here is building their background knowledge.
There's so many good connections to previous episodes, like in this read section, the idea of building background knowledge was an episode we did with Jackie a while back. The idea of, you know, pulling out this incredible vocabulary in this text that is at the center. We did a conversation with that with Lisa about interactive vocabulary walls and so it is kind of fun to see all of these pieces that we've had conversations around, just kind of to see how they connect
Absolutely, and they all do connect, yes.
So we've spent some time in the first part of this framework, the read. And from the reading, we go read to the think. And I wonder if we do the same thing as we think about this think part of the framework. Mary say more about that, like, what is this? Think part, why is it there, and maybe, how have we seen it play out?
Yeah, this is a critical piece, I think, of the cycle, because students need time to think and develop their thoughts about what they've just learned, right? And so often this might be a part of the cycle that's missed. And I think about this cycle allows students go deeper with their understanding. It allows students all to have equity and then, and I really appreciate this part, because all students have to, again, be accountable for their learning, so they need time to think about it. You can't be passive in this part of it, like you can't go and meet with like in a protocol of Kevin and I, you are we're partners, or we do a trio where the three of us are partners. We can't come to the trio and not have anything to say, right? We can't just stay be on the side. We have to be accountable for our learning.
So and how many times, if I think back at my career,
and I'll be honest to say it. I might have asked kids to get with a partner and talk and not have given them the chance to think and prepare. What a gift it is to say, hey, we're gonna, in just a minute, we're gonna launch into, go into trios. And I want you to talk about, you know, whatever, something that we just had a conversation around with, this rich text. Take a minute think. What are you thinking about this? And to give that silence and that think time for a student and our learners to organize or thinking that is a gift, right? And provide safety for them to go into that conversation. And how often do we cut that out? Whether we forget or we're in a rush and we're like they don't, I'm just going to send them off to the partnerships. We got to get going with this lesson, and we really handicap those learners going into those conversations.
It just one to two minutes. It might seem like a lot, but it's not. It goes by quickly, so having them have that time to really think about it. And Katie, I think you were sharing some research about this.
There is some research around think time. And it says, you know, a pause of three or more seconds after asking question significantly improves the quality and quantity of student response, fostering deeper thinking, better engagement and more accurate answers. And we were talking before we recorded about that three seconds. So in general, when you're asking question, three seconds, great. But for this cycle, Kevin, you and I think Mary both said one to two minutes, because we're really reading something and we're wanting to have really good think time, which would be longer than three seconds.
And the protocols are such a great support for that. You know the think pair share, listen to the think. Notice the think in there, giving kids to time to think so all the protocols we've talked about in some of our previous conversations, and maybe some other ones you have in your own personal tool belt. Yes, this is a good time to pull some of those out to allow some of those kids to organize their thinking before they actually share it with somebody next to them.
And I think as adults, as we sit in meetings too, and we're asked to respond to something that we're learning here, even at the ISD, right? Yeah, like we appreciate that time just to think first before I have to get with a partner or a quad or whatever, to be able to articulate my thinking. I know I always value the thinking as I process. It takes me a little bit longer to process my thinking.
Yeah, sometimes my best idea comes on the drive home Absolutely. And I wonder if I would have that think time somewhere before I talked with somebody. Maybe it would have popped out earlier.
Yeah, well, and I think it goes back to Mary. You were talking about accountability too. So you're going to talk and share and use these protocols. So before you do that, get that idea ready in your head.
You know, Katie, when you say that, what makes me excited is because the students have done the reading part of this cycle. They have something to say. Day, right? It's not like they don't have something to say. Anything they say is going to be related, hopefully, right, to what they read. Yeah. So I think that always gives students a little bit of comfort, versus maybe before in the past, I might have been guilty of it. I've asked them to think about something, and they might not have any knowledge or vocabulary, right? And I think that this is a good place for students to think, because as we move into the next part of the cycle, the teacher, again, being a facilitator, can also do quick formative assessment to see how are the students using the vocabulary. Do they have understanding, comprehending? Where are they at in their thinking?
Right now, right? And going back to what you just said, builds that background knowledge we're reading to build background knowledge learning that vocabulary, which is then what we're thinking about.
And sometimes, as we work through the lessons that El has structured out, there are some of those intentional questions they put in for us as teachers in those classrooms to guide some of the thinking, whether it's through like a close read activity, and some of those questions need some think time. And so as we, as you know, teachers plan those lessons out on a daily basis to notice some of those, you know, questions that we're using to guide kids and remember, okay, yep, they need some think time here, whether it's to think and review what they put down in a note catcher from the day before, or rehearse what they're going to say to the person next to them. Yes, let's be intentional about keeping that think time there, because that is a gift to allow kids to rehearse and just like get their self organized. So we've talked about the reading part, the read and then the think, and how they connect, right? We're reading, and out of the reading, we're to do some thinking. And that leads us into the third part, which is the talk section, read, think, and now the talk. So, Mary, same question to you as you think about this talk section of the framework, or sometimes we call it the cycle. Say more about that. What is the talk part? Why is it there? And how do we see it play out?
Kevin, I really like this section, because I like to
talk in this part. It makes me think about students. Now. This is where they can come together after their opportunity to think about it. And now they can really start to develop their understanding and comprehension, and they can try it out safely with their with their friends in the room, right? Like if we're partnered up, I can try something on. I might have gone in with one idea. Students here learn another life skill, flexible thinking. Can I hear multiple perspectives, and how does that shift my current thinking? Or do I stay with what I firmly believe right now, still right? And you're okay with that. I think the other part that really excites me about here is the quote that they had in some of the reading that we all did as we prep for today. Learning floats on a sea of talk by Barnes, 1976 I love that quote because I again, I love to talk so my learning, and I think both of you know that I, if I'm verbally having conversation with you, I'm doing a lot more learning, you know. And I think about students there might be that way too. So I've thought, but now I get to process and take on ideas. The other thing I wondered about in this section, it develops listening and speaking skills, which is a standards that we all have in in our k5 for sure, the listening and speaking, and when they're doing the listening and speaking, they're listening to understand, not to respond. So that's a skill set that will serve us well as children as well as adults,
absolutely, and that is so that's hard for adults. So really giving students lots of practice with this, starting at kindergarten, is going to be valuable for them.
I go back to some of the things you started with Mary too, like why the talk in the first place? And this idea of just clarifying misconceptions I can think about it personally, or just thinking about experiences when I've been in classrooms, working with our little learners, we get into a text, and maybe I misunderstood something, right? And so I go into this conversation with a partnership. This has happened to me and as an adult, an adult too, right? And I sit down, and now I process with a partner. I'm like, oh, wait a minute, I need to adjust a little bit, whether my opinion I'm adjusting, or whether a fact that I gathered was incorrect. Like just the chance to bounce that off is so valuable. We just lived this out. Yes, we were having a conversation yesterday on a totally different topic, about prompts that we can use to support kids, yes, and I had, we had both done some reading, had the chance to think about it, and then we got on a zoom and just like, talked it out. Yeah, and how do we want to frame this in a way that is the is clear and the least confusing and the most powerful, and that process of. Just us talking really refined the way I thought about some things, and is going to make this bookmark and this resource we're going to use with teachers so much better, right? We do this as an adult. Why shouldn't our kids have that same opportunity? Maybe it's rehearsing. They're thinking, maybe it's something they've written and they're just want to rehearse it with somebody like we value that. Yes, our kids are going to value that too.
Yeah, the oral rehearsing is so important. Students deserve that time right this morning when I was having my coffee. Of course, I'm
always reading with your sourdough toast.
Know It, Kevin, you know it. I read this quote on early early oral language skills are one of the best predictors of later social skills by pace, 2019 and then Spencer and Pearson, 2022 and it made me really think about this with my own grandchildren right now, they like to oral, rehearse a lot, so they are set up for this routine of the read, think, talk, write, cycle, right? And they like to express themselves, and that's how they're learning about the world around them, right? So why not give them that opportunity to continue
to do rehearsal? And a lot of that rehearsing is done with protocols. Absolutely, we're throwing back to lots of different episodes today, all those connections, you know, the conversation with Jamie, we've talked about a number of times, and just if you're out there listening, you're like, I want to know more about the protocols to really support student talk. That's a good episode to go back and
listen to. Yeah? That will definitely support this, giving you those protocols to help with that productive conversation.
Yeah, Katie, I love that you said that. And Kevin, because I think the other thing it does with the protocols, it helps keep all students safe, right? It keeps them safe. They know what to do. They know the expectation, and I think for students they need that we all crave, that
you just said something that made me think about another connection to one of our episodes around multilingual learners. And Rebecca talked so much about this oral processing and how important it is for those students. So it's good for all kids, but vital for those Yeah.
So it's beneficial for some, and I really think it's essential for all, to be quite honest. Yes. And then the other thing, when we were doing some of our preparation, I saw the word debate in there, and I thought, Oh, how do kids get a chance to oral rehearse debate? And how do we understand that we can have discourse on something in it? And then how do we debate using facts? Right? So you got to get back into that text multiple times with having a complex text. They've got a lot of evidence in there. So then it moves from my opinion, what are the actual facts that I'm going to be debating? And so it's, I think that's important too, to teach kids how to have debate and yet appreciate someone else's point of view as well. Yeah.
I mean, the talk section of this can show up in a multiple different ways. It can show up in a simple turn to talk, right? It can show up in a more structured partner work or group work, or it could show up in a class like circle or fishbowl, where you're doing some debating, like we've seen all kinds of different formats in the K through five resource, right? But I hope as you're doing your lesson planning and you see those different pieces, you can now say, oh, wait a minute, I see where that fits into the read, think, talk, write, cycle. This is the talk section. And before that, I'm sure there's been some thinking and reviewing of notes, and there's definitely been some reading with that key text. So it's fun to talk these out each different part and also hopefully connect it back to our daily work with the lessons that are in front of us each day. And that brings us to the last piece. Read, think, talk and the right. And it's almost like all the three that we talked about build to this one, like builds to the writing. And so for the last time, Aries, you think about this part the writing. Say more about it. What is it? Why is it here? How do we see it play out?
Yeah, writing is one of my favorite things. So I could join you in the coffee shop. Nice. Yeah, I love to write, daily writing to learn. When I think about El education, I had to make some notations here. I think about students get so many opportunities to do the writing, and so when I think about the writing, they have the annotation right? With the closed reading, lots and lots of practice and these short answers and responses. They have graphic organizers. And then the one thing that I really appreciate is that students, in order to write, they're constantly going back to the text to crystallize their thinking, right? So when they have a chance to crystallize their thinking, they know what to write about. I think my favorite thing that I've heard from a few teachers around our county, I don't have students sitting there anymore not knowing what to write about, and that is a powerful tool. Because I don't know if either one of you have had this, but I've had it in my own classroom, where students are sitting there sometimes, and they really, truly didn't know what they were going to write about, right? Because I think. I, as the teacher was giving, I gave them a vague question about what to write about thinking they have had all this knowledge, and they didn't have that knowledge. That wasn't fair on my behalf, I've learned so much, right? So I think with the protocols that are set up here for writing, students have that ability to really emulate and crystallize their thinking onto the paper Absolutely.
And when I think about this framework, there's not one but two things to build that background knowledge. So we're reading, which is building the background knowledge, and then we're talking to our partners, which, again, is building more background knowledge. So there's two opportunities for that before we're writing, which is really to your point, helping them know what they're supposed to write about.
Yeah, and they have so much to say, don't they. Katie, when you just I love being in some classrooms where you've had a chance to observe this writing. And I think about a first grade teacher, when we were in a pilot of the El education, she was bringing all of her writing from her students forward to say, look what they're doing now, comparative of what they've done before. And she was excited because they what she also noticed is that they were using the anchor charts around the classroom for the vocabulary, right, so that they wanted to make sure they spelled those words correctly. But she said, You know, before they might have said, well, I want to use the vocabulary word, but I don't know how to spell so I'm not going to use it. But now they have a lot of resources that are supporting them as writers.
As I think about writing, I often think about in two different buckets. There's the writing to learn, so I'm writing to crystallize the thinking, as Mary you said, and part of that writing to learn is the annotating text and using the note catchers and maybe a quick response at the end of a conversation. Hey, we just had this conversation. Take a minute. Jot down your thinking, jot down your takeaway today. And then there's the learning to write, which are the steps, and you had said like this, the scaffolded high quality writing that comes at the end of a unit. And so I like to think about in both of those and they this framework kind of leads to both of those pieces as an end product, both the writing to learn and the learning to write. Yeah.
Kevin, when you lift that, I think for us as teachers, based on how we've been taught writing, it's a big mind shift, right? So depending on how you were taught and how maybe you taught in your classroom is really doing a little bit more release to the students. And I think that sometimes can be really challenging. And then something that is I was in preparation to it made me start to think about this even differently from mine. When we're talking about writing, when they're doing letter formation, then they're going to spelling, this is all writing, right? And then note taking, like you said earlier, and the graphic organizing that really helps the students start to crystallize their thinking to move forward. That is a form of writing. It's all
kind of woven in, right? Like the reading and writing are woven in, as opposed to writing being like a separate block, yes. I mean, sometimes it feels like that if you're into some of those scaffold writing pieces that take more, larger chunks of time, but other times, it's kind of woven in throughout in different structures.
Yeah, you don't have that isolation, right? Not this, and it's not that. So I really appreciate that about the protocols that they set in place for success. Well, that
brings us to the end of those four parts, the read that leads to the think, that leads to the talk, and that leads to the right, and they all kind of go together. And as we said at the top of our conversation, we hope after that you're able to say, Okay, I understand what those four parts are a little deeper than I did when we started. And as you get into your daily lesson planning, you see the different pieces that you can start to kind of see which parts those fall into. Oh yeah, that's a chance for them to get into the reader, getting into that text, or, oh right, this is an opportunity for them to think and organize before they share. Okay, yep, that's a talking piece. And yeah, that definitely isn't writing and just to see how those pieces fit together, because sometimes these lessons are tough to get through. We've said that before, and yes, you might have to do some adjustments. That's normal, and as you make those decisions, be well informed about the pieces that you might adjust, because you might not want to take some of these pieces out that are important to this framework. You take the thinking out, and now we've handicapped our kids so, like, just be mindful, as you you know, maybe make some adjustments in a day, as we all do, that you're just well informed at why those pieces are there. Yeah, I
think it really just goes to purpose, the thinking of the purpose of these four things, and maybe not wanting to take them out, because they are so valuable and have that strong purpose.
Yes, and as Mary said earlier, you might consider taking some of these and applying it to things that are outside of your literacy block. And maybe you'll even if you are connected to professional learning in your building or your district, you might even. Use some of the same framework when you're working with your peers, and that we have opportunities to read and then to think, and then we talk about and then we just jot some things down. So this framework is so applicable to so many pieces of our life, and we're going to bring it back to Mary for small steps. So Mary, as you think about our listeners, some who may be jumping into El education for the first time, others who have been using this curriculum for years, if you can invite them to be mindful of one thing when thinking about the read, think, talk, write framework, what small step would you invite them to consider?
Mine was writing, because maybe that's selfishly what I want to do as well with the El education is writing just doesn't happen at the end of the learning process. So really, to think about all those places writing show up and why they show up is something that I want to continue to do and extend a little bit more in my thinking and study this within the El education, because I it's shifting my mindset as well compared to how I taught writing and how I learned to become a writer, right? So the one thing I would just empower teachers is invite them to think about writing just a little differently, and then just kind of study it. How is it showing up, and how is it different comparative to what I've done? And can I give myself grace to be okay that it is different from what I've learned.
Good advice.
As we close up this episode, we hope you got some fuel in the tank and lead with some fresh energy for the weeks ahead, and we close things off today with high fives and hitchhikers. Here's the cool thing, we have the power to re energize and refuel those around us. So find a colleague. It could be the person next door. It could be the person across the hall, maybe it's in another grade. Find that colleague and give them a high five. Tell them you got this. Remind them you're a rock star and pick them up as a hitchhiker, invite them to join the conversation and take a seat with us at the table. All the best to you and see you next time on fuel up.