In this episode of Fuel Up!, we dive into the power of student talk protocols in the K–5 classroom. Our guest, Jamie Oyler, kindergarten teacher at Reeths-Puffer Elementary, shares how she builds a safe, student-led environment where every child has a voice. We discuss practical strategies for rolling out protocols, the importance of teacher intentionality, and how less teacher talk often means deeper student learning. Whether you’re brand new to EL Education or a seasoned user, this episode is packed with insights, research, and small steps you can try right away.
EL Education: Learn more about the K-5 Literacy Curriculum that forms the foundation of our conversations. Link to EL Education
Literacy Essentials – Best practices in literacy instruction
EL Education Protocols Overview: What are protocols? (EL Education)
EL Education: Classroom Protocols
Research on Student Talk: Accountable Talk®: Classroom Conversation that Works (Institute for Learning, University of Pittsburgh)
The Role of Classroom Talk in Literacy Learning (Harvard Graduate School of Education)
Fuel Up! Playlist Idea: 🎵 It’s a Beautiful Day by U2 — Jamie’s go-to song for fueling up.
I think what I've noticed about myself, it's important to do less talking. I learn right along with my students. When they're sharing out, I'm able to listen and take in what they're saying. I it's really all about just building those relationships in the classroom and allowing every student to have a voice with me talking less it allows them more opportunity to really have it be a student led Classroom.
Welcome back to fuel up a place for conversations with and for those using el education as a resource to support k5 literacy learning, we are so excited to have you with us for this week's episode. Today we zoom in on the topic of student talk protocols. We hope today's talk serves as a pit stop, a chance to swing by for some fresh energy, insights, encouragement and celebration as we work together to do what's best for our learners, this is a chance to fuel up. So wherever this finds you today, we hope you are able to pull over, take a breath and crank it up, and in that spirit, here we go.
Happy fall everyone. Katie, it's good to be back with you at the table. Are you ready for the fall weather?
I come in and high fuel up, listeners, and yes, I am ready for this fall weather. I'm really excited for my pumpkin spice latte. Okay, and some sweatshirt leggings, maybe a bonfire. So, yes, we are ready. It's great summer, but fall, here we
go. All right. Pumpkin spice lattes
a little different from my trucker coffee, which I still drink, but once in a while, pumpkin spice latte. All right,
so yeah, fall weather is in the air. Pumpkin spice lattes are the Fave this time of year. And speaking of faves, our topic today is one of your favorites, using student talk protocols, talk to us for a minute like, why is this one of your favorites?
Great question. So this is one of my favorites. And I often think the person doing the talking is doing the learning, and that is what these protocols do. They put the learning back on the student, and all students have a voice and they're fun. We all like fun in our class, so that that's a couple of reasons why this particular episode is one of my favorites.
So there may be a listener out there who is not sure what a protocol is, so let's pause for a minute and just define what is a protocol. This definition actually comes from the El website. It says a protocol consists of agreed upon guidelines for reading, recording, discussing and reporting that ensure equal participation and accountability that connects to what you were saying about students being in the learning seat. They also have this section on their the website that talked about protocols. We'll link that in our resources today. We thought it would be valuable for our listeners to hear a section of that, and so this port, this section is called protocols for collaboration and discussion. And here's what it says. Says protocols for collaboration and discussion invite students to value different perspectives and new insights. These protocols make room for listening as well as contributing to discussion. Following guidelines for time keeping, turn taking and focusing on the topic are essential for productive discussion. These are not skills that come naturally to many students. Sentence stems for accountable talk and asking questions, norms for honoring diverse perspectives and procedures for synthesizing contributions to a discussion hold individuals and groups accountable for pushing their thinking further. Discussion protocols can be embedded in a workshop or daily lesson or can be for the entire lesson for the class period. I thought that was a really good summary. Any thoughts you had on that?
No, I think absolutely that's exactly what it is. It sets some of that why and goes back to putting the work back on the student and giving all students the opportunity to participate in their learning.
I like that line too. These are not skills that come naturally to many students. I don't know if it comes naturally to adults too, right? Like we got to work. On this, I agree. I agree with we could use our own protocols, right? Absolutely. Somebody might be wondering, what does the current research have to say about protocols? And so let's take a minute to get grounded. Katie, what does current research have to say about student talk?
Yes. So the current research around student talk is it consistently demonstrates the benefits of student talk for learning and development, and student led discussions, as we know, really foster those critical thinking skills, as well as enhancing their communication skills and promote a stronger sense of community in the classroom, active participation through talk, especially when focused on higher order thinking, can lead to improved content understanding and better performance on assessment. So that's research, but also the why, the why that these are so important to embed in your classroom?
Yeah, good stuff. And we'll link some of those articles in our resources, too. If people want to follow up and do some extra reading on
that, I'm sure everyone's going to read all of them. They are great, especially at the bonfire
this fall, yes, and the pumpkin spice latte, so you could do have your latte and the extra research, and just, do you know, your own little campfire reading
sounds great. I might do that this Friday.
All right, so now that we are grounded, we are so excited to invite our guests to the table, and this teacher is a rock star. I've had the privilege to be in this this person's classroom a number of times, and I always leave the better after being in there. So I'm so excited to have her at the table. A big welcome to Jamie oiler, what's up? Jamie? Hi. Jamie teaches kindergarten at Reese puffer Elementary, and has been working with El education for about seven years. Hey, Jamie, welcome to fuel up. Happy fall for having me. Hey, are you a pumpkin spice latte fan?
I am not, but I am a football fan. Oh, a football fan. No, I did not hear football talk for that fall season. What team are you rooting for? I like Michigan. I like Michigan State. I am kind of both fans.
Well, I'm very glad you added that state to the Michigan part so you can stay at the table today.
Otherwise, we don't want any enemies in our listening community. We like all teams and the lions. I mean, they've been having a great couple seasons, so it's a great time to be Michigan, of
course, the lions fan as well. But yeah, just any type of football,
it's good. Well, in the spirit of fuel up any guest we have to the table, we always like to start with a few fun questions to get us launched. So Katie's got one, and I got one. Katie ready.
I'm ready. So Jamie again, welcome. Very excited to have you today. What is your go to snack to fuel up during the school day.
Oh, during the school day, I love to have coffee and protein. So I love my Greek yogurt with seeds and berries and, of course, a strong coffee to start the day, excellent.
So that yogurt really gets you fueled up for your day and ready to teach? Yes, it does. And coffee and coffee. Do you do a shot of expresso or just coffee?
Just coffee, just
black coffee, black coffee. All right, so you have your yogurt and your black coffee. What song would you crank up to the max to fuel you up and launch your day?
Oh, this is an old school, but I always love. It's a beautiful day by you too. It's always a favorite of mine, and it always gets me in a good mood for the day.
That is a good one. I like that one. It's a beautiful day. We're gonna have to add that to our playlist. We should make a playlist. We should that's great. That would be a good one. Speaking of playlists, our playlist today is student talk protocols, and so I think we're ready to dive into our topic for the day and to get the conversation started. Jamie, first question, as you think about student talk protocols, and you've been using el education, that resource, for the last seven years, talk to us for a minute. Where have you seen student talk protocols live in this curriculum.
You dabble with the protocols during our some of the skills lessons, but mainly where you will see the protocols is in our module lessons. The great thing about the protocols is you can kind of pick and choose which ones you're comfortable with and which ones you want to introduce to your learners,
so a little bit in skills block. The heart of it is in the module lesson. Yes, okay,
so Jamie, I have had the privilege of also being in your room several times, and I also leave very energized. So I know that you do these. I. Often. So what does it look like in your classroom, and when do you use them?
I think you'll notice, if you have observed them, that it's very safe and comfortable in my classroom. So when the protocols are being used, everyone feels safe and comfortable. As far as when I use them, I start in the beginning of the year teaching my four. I usually pick three or four of my favorites and start teaching them right away with get to know you activities and relationship building activities. Also I teach them, what does a protocol? What is a protocol? What does it look like, and how are we going to use it this school year. So teaching them the why of the protocol I found to be extremely beneficial for my learners. It makes them feel safe and it creates better conversations among the students in the in the classroom, introducing one at a time, getting comfortable and getting the students comfortable with that one, and then bring in another protocol. I introduce all of them in September, just to get practice and consistency of using them, I also teach the students how to respond and share to some share with another person. So it's just really been a great opportunity to build relationships in the classroom.
So you're really focused on building that safe environment that allows all students to participate in conversation. Yes, and then by building those in in September in a fun way, they're ready when you introduce them into the curriculum.
Yes, that is correct. I found that it makes it easier when you start getting into some of those tough conversations with standards. The kids already know what the protocol part is, so then it allows them really the opportunity to just share their voice,
so they're not thinking about what you're asking them to do over on that protocol. But more what the question was,
yes, to stay more on topic,
you said two words that caught my attention. Sure, safe and comfortable. There may be an educator out there who has been cautious about using protocols. Idea of getting kids up and moving and talking might feel messy, and if you were to ask them to describe protocols, they probably wouldn't use the word safe and comfortable. Speak more into that as you describe them as safe and comfortable. What do you mean by that? And how did you get there?
I think you just start and yeah, the first couple times. It may seem a little messy, but you're going to guide the students through that. So you're going to guide them on how to respond to their partner. You're going to guide them on it's okay if you have a question for your partner, that's that's okay to ask them a question about their share. So creating that safe environment, just like adults, right? We have a hard time sharing if we're not feeling comfortable. So it's really important to build that right away in your classroom, so when tough questions arise later with the curriculum, students feel safe enough to answer even though they might not be on the right track, right? They might not think they have the right response to that question, but it's really all about just building those relationships in the classroom and allowing every student to have a voice. And it's okay if someone's feeling a little shy or maybe they just have to sit back and watch for a little bit, and then when they become comfortable, they can join in to any conversation, because they know they're going to be accepted into that conversation, the
one word that comes to my mind as I hear you talk is intentional. Yes, you've been really intentional about how you set that up so kids are safe and comfortable. Speak a little bit more into how you roll these protocols out and get them smooth as specific as possible. What might that look like if, if somebody were to come in and just watch you like a fly on the wall the first time you introduce a protocol, maybe it's back to back, face to face, or, you know, campfire, whichever protocol it is, slow it down for a little bit. How did you roll that out? Step by step.
Sure, I start by telling them what a protocol is. So I said that earlier. I teach them why we are using them in the classroom, and then I say, Okay, we're going to practice. I give a topic. It could be as simple as your favorite food, and tell your partner why that's your favorite food. They kind of have a moment to think, which is part of the process of the protocol. You give them time to think, and you give them time to share out, and then you give them time to respond. So really, just taking the time in the beginning to not rush through the protocols. And we're going to practice that one for maybe one. Three days, and then I'm going to introduce another one. So then they get excited because, oh, this is where we get to talk with a friend. And so we're going to learn a new way to talk and share. And of course, it's a topic that they can relate to. Maybe it's sports. So in the beginning, I start with very small topics to get to know one another, and we do that for, like I said, one to three days, and then I introduce another one. Now, if you ask me, what I do in August, in August, I go through my list of protocols, which ones really worked the year before, which ones do I absolutely love and am not ready to throw out. And I kind of make my list of four to five protocols, and I do that again in January to make it inviting for springtime. So sometimes in those winter months, kids get a little bored, they get a little antsy, and they might need a new one. So it's okay to throw one out mid year and teach them something new. So just being intentional with the ones that really work, the ones that I found to be the most successful, and then taking the time in the beginning to really teach those protocols
you mentioned, time to introduce them, but also time, time to think, time to share, and then time to respond, right?
Because students sometimes need to process, you know, that share, and sometimes they might disagree, and that's okay, so we use sentence frames to help them respond to their partner. I feel because I agree, because I disagree, because or sometimes it's I have one question or I have a comment for your share. So teaching how to respond through those protocols is super important in the beginning of the year as well, and that's what kind of creates that safe and comfortable environment, because they know they're going to be respected when they share their thought or their feeling.
You said something else earlier too, telling my students it's a new way of talking, and it connected to something we read at the beginning where talking with protocols is not a skill that comes naturally for students, and just to name that with them, Hey guys, this is a different way of doing it, and then giving them the chance to practice that with topics that they're familiar with is so smart You talked about the talk prompts that guide the conversation. Can you talk through what that support has looked like? How do you set those up for success that they're using the student talk prompts? Because sometimes we have them up and they might not use them like, how do you get it to the point where they're using those? I think they
need to be visible, and sometimes they need to be movable, because in those moments, sentence strips are a great way to just have them on sentence strips or on your slides. So they have they can refer to them as we're in the process of a protocol, because students can just easily look and say, Oh, that's the red slide. I know what I can say to my partner. Or if you write them on sentence strips, it's nice, because sometimes they might have to come up and grab a sentence strip and just have it in front of them. Some more of my students that are typically start out a little shy or nervous like to have that in front of them. So I think just knowing your students making those accommodations and making sure you have support for students that you know take a little longer to share out.
That is a great idea. I am totally stealing that sentence strip idea. Many of us have them on the slides, and we may assume that's enough, but to provide extra support and have it on a censorship that you can actually just come and take it and have it in front of you, whether you're in first grade, kindergarten to fifth grade. I think any kids could benefit from that. That is a great idea.
It's a really amazing scaffold that you're putting in place for your kids, and all kids can benefit from that. So, Jamie, what have you noticed with yourself or your learners, since you've really been intentional on adding these protocols in,
I think what I've noticed about myself is I think it's important to do less talking, and I learn right along with my students. When they're sharing out, I'm able to listen and take in what they're saying with me talking less, it allows them more opportunity to really have it be a student led classroom. When you start putting the students in leadership, of empowering them in some of them roles, it creates a stronger.
Classroom. So building in these protocols is really taking it off of you, putting it back on them, and putting them in the driver's seat of their learning.
Yes, and I found that, you know, it just creates those stronger relationships amongst the learners when they feel they have a purpose in the classroom,
that balance between teacher talk and student talk is a shift. You mentioned. My goal is to do less talking myself and put it to my kids. My hunch is, if you are normal, I know you're normal, that that's a shift. I think back in my first years, sometimes we were modeled to do most of the talking. And so what was that shift like for you?
It was a little it was a little hard to get used to, because you, you know, always thought that you were the one in the instruct mode, right? So I think we, a lot of times, just get so used to that thinking we need to tell the students what to do, but in reality, students now actually, they can lead a lot of those talks, and you'd really be surprised at how well the discussions turn out with student led conversations.
You mentioned that it's been a shift for you, and you've tried to hand the talking over. What have you noticed with your learners?
I've noticed that they're more open to share, and I also noticed that if I just give them questions that are not open ended or that are open ended questions, but not yes or no questions, you really get a good insight of what it is they're thinking about, and that leads us to other conversations that come up in the classroom. So it just, again, creates that safe environment for students to learn because they know they have a voice and that they are leading a lot of those discussions. And I think it's great for students to have that that power in the classroom.
Really, they're taking ownership of their learning, and that's informing where you take them and take those lessons, right?
And I think it's good in all subject areas, asking a lot of questions in math, and just stepping back a little bit has been a huge game changer, too. So I think it's across the board with anything you do in your classroom. I think you have to trust in them to kind of take that
lead student protocols are embedded in El, but you've made it this way of life. I start in August, and we're talking about favorite things, and then it shows up in my el lessons. But this is such good practice. I'm going to put it everywhere. I want to put it into math and whatever other activities you have. It sounds like it's just become a way of life. Kids know how to do this.
Yeah, it's great in our social emotional learning as well. So these protocols, really, if you dive into them, use your best judgment to become familiar with that curriculum right away. You can incorporate it in so many other things in your classroom.
So you're really able to look at the list of protocols and make that decision as the teacher on which ones to use, and then you adjust based on what your students need.
Yes, that's what I found to be the most beneficial. So do you use
the the specific protocol that's embedded in a lesson? If you're going through a specific module lesson, and it says, Use this protocol. Like, how do you make that decision? Do you use the one that's in there? Do you pull a different one in? And how, if you do pull a different one in? How do you know when to do that?
I think knowing your students right, and knowing how they respond to those certain protocols. So if it's something that's a little more difficult. Topic wise, I might choose a protocol that we started in the beginning of the year because that's the most comfortable for them. So it's okay to make those decisions as you are going through the curriculum and teaching those protocols. If you choose a different one at that time, I think you know your students best and know what they need. Maybe you're going to choose one that requires more movement, because you feel like your students are getting antsy. So if the lesson might call for just a think pair, share, maybe you're going to do a stand up, get up, hand up, share to get them moving
so responsive,
I feel like you do that really well, right? You're able to look at your students and make a decision on which one, because you front loaded so many protocols.
Yes, it's really important to touch them in September.
Yeah. The non negotiable is, I'm doing a protocol. There may be a time you need to swap out a protocol, or you want to, it doesn't mean you're just getting rid of the protocol. No, like the non negotiable is, I'm going to do one because I know that's what good practice is, providing kids opportunities to talk and process and push ideas forward. But I might adjust the specific one based on the needs of my kids, right?
You've been using this resource for seven years.
As you think about student talk protocols, what's worked, what hasn't worked. Maybe another way to frame that would be, how has that practice changed for you over time.
I think where it's changed over time is in the beginning, I was not introducing the protocols right away. I kind of waited till they came up in the curriculum. And since I started introducing them right away, I feel like each year just gets better and better. So, you know, it's like with anything, the more you do it, the more you feel comfortable, and then your students feel that comfortable level too. So I think it's really important for teachers to become comfortable using the protocols.
Great. Yeah, if we're fluent with them, they're going to be fluent with them.
Good stuff.
It's time for small steps. And Jamie, as you think about our listeners, some who may be jumping into El education for the first time this year, others who may have been using this curriculum for years, if you could invite them to be mindful of one thing around protocols, what small step would you invite them to consider?
I think the biggest thing is being familiar with the protocols. And even if you start small, that's the best way to go. Start with one protocol. Do that for a month, until you're extremely comfortable with it, and then try another one. If you start small and just really be mindful of your students and your student needs, then everything will come into play. Don't try to do them all at
once. Great advice.
All right, there you go, a small step to consider over the next few weeks as you get back into the work. As we wrap things up today, we hope you got some fuel in the tank and leave with some fresh energy for the weeks ahead. And we're going to close things off today with high fives and hitchhikers. Here's the cool thing, we have the power to re energize and to refuel those around us. So find a colleague. It could be the person next door, it could be the person across the hall, maybe it's in another grade. Find that colleague and give them a high five. Tell them you got this remind them you're a rock star and pick them up as a hitchhiker. Invite them to join the conversation and take a seat with us at the table. All the best to you and see you next time on Fuel Up