In this episode of Fuel Up, the conversation centers on complex texts in EL Education and the mindset shifts required for both teachers and students to succeed with rigorous reading. Through classroom stories and real teacher experiences, listeners are reminded that productive struggle is essential, equity matters, and students are capable of far more than we often assume.
Literacy Essentials – Best practices in literacy instruction
EL Education Curriculum (K–5):
https://curriculum.eleducation.org
EL Education — K–5 Literacy Resources
https://eleducation.org/resources
Close Reading in EL Education
https://eleducation.org/resources/close-reading
If I would have kept that mindset of it's too hard.
Let's just read it out loud and tell them what they're supposed to understand. That would have done Zero good for the students and for us, but allowing them to just read it and then, all right, I'm going to help you. Along with that,
my mindset definitely changed from the beginning to now.
I definitely grew as a teacher. I was very closed off, and I was like, There's no way we can do this. That's kind of like the shift you have to kind of go right the mindset of the students can do it.
Welcome back to fuel up a place for conversations with and for those using el education as a resource to support k5 literacy learning, we are so excited to have you with us for this week's episode. Today we zoom in on the topic of complex text. We hope today's talk serves as a pit stop, a chance to swing by for some fresh energy, insights, encouragement and celebration as we work together to do what's best for our learners, this is a chance to fuel up. So wherever this finds you today, we hope you were able to pull over, take a breath and crank it up, and in that spirit, here
we go. We are back for another great conversation. Today we are looking at complex text as we've walked alongside teachers using el education to support literacy instruction. Katie, you and I have both seen these anchor texts in classrooms. I was thinking about something I read in the week, what we call the big purple book, the other day, and they were talking about these complex texts. And if I could just read this for a minute, it says these anchor texts are the centerpiece of students reading. This text is one that all students will read in order to build content knowledge and literacy skills. There is a quote it says in the universe of all the rich resources students will read in a given unit, the anchor text is like the sun. All the other articles, poems, maps, charts and other forms of text circle around this one text that is so good. I like the metaphor of the sun.
I do too. I can just visualize that. You can picture the book now right in the center, center.
So as you think about the k5 text that we've had the chance to work with, do you have a favorite that stands out to you?
Oh, that's a hard one. There are so many great texts, but I think if I could pick one, I would pick the Hope Chest. Oh, from fourth grade. It's about the 19th Amendment. I was in a classroom couple years ago when she was doing a read aloud for this, and I was just so captivated. It's about courage and justice and doing what's right now. Just really spoke to me. So I think that's still my favorite. Okay, the Hope Chest. So what about for you, Kevin,
so one of my favorites is from third grade, from the frog module. It's everything you need to know about frogs and other slippery creatures. And as we've worked with that book, there was one cool frog fact that stood out to me, and that is, there are frogs that make their own antifreeze, which means during the winter they freeze, but yet, this antifreeze that they make, that they hold in their body, allows them to unthaw in the spring. I never knew that frogs could freeze over the winter, did you?
I didn't that is a really neat fact.
Yeah, that was as a nature lover and somebody who likes to get out in the woods, I don't think I'll be digging for frogs in the winter to see if this is true, but that was just a cool fact, that some frogs make their own antifreeze.
Well, now I have that fact too, so I can share. Yes, it's pretty neat.
Well, somebody might be wondering, what does the current research have to say about complex text and Katie as I hand it over to you, I wonder if we do two things during this getting grounded. Number one is, yes, what does the research have to say about complex text? But also, let's just take a minute to define it. There might be a number of definitions of what a complex text is, and so let's get grounded with two things, what is a common definition we can use for complex text, and number two, what does the research have to say about it?
So El, from their big purple book, they talk about criteria, and there's some specific criteria that goes to defining what a complex text is. So content, grade level content standards are a must interest is the text. Compelling for students, complexity? Is it really helping them build that literacy muscle, and then reading standards? Is it hitting those grade level standards? So those things really are what defines a complex text. And then when we're thinking about what the research says. The research says teaching with complex texts builds crucial vocabulary, background knowledge, critical thinking and reading stamina, preparing students for college and careers by exposing them to rich language and ideas through effective scaffolding, such as pre teaching vocabulary, strategic support and read alouds is vital to preventing students from getting overwhelmed. Research shows students rise to the challenge when given support, leading to deeper comprehension and better long term outcomes than if limited to easier text,
yeah, there's a lot of benefits listed in there to complex text.
A lot of benefits. And some things that the research is saying that we've talked about building that background knowledge, vocabulary, student talk, all of those things are really in there to support that complex text.
Yeah, that's great. All right, now that we are grounded, we are excited to invite our guests to the table. This teacher is a rock star when it comes to building relationships in classroom, culture, Kitty. I could hang out in this person's classroom all day. We are so excited to invite her to the table. A big welcome to Amanda Johnson. Nicolette, Amanda teaches fifth graders at Cardinal elementary Amanda, welcome to fuel up. Thank you. I'm glad to be here. So a few fun questions to get started.
Katie, well, welcome Amanda to the first question, what is your go to snack or drink that really fuels you up and gets you moving? In the morning,
I really like a good Starbucks in the morning.
Oh, you're speaking my language, yes.
So Starbucks has a big menu, like narrow that down for us. What do you mean by that?
Well, I don't know if a lot of people know it. It's called a cafe misto, and it's like a flat coffee, and then I just put sugar free vanilla syrup in it.
Well, that sounds pretty tasty. I'm a fellow lover of Starbucks, and I don't think I've had that yet, so I might have to add it caffeine.
Mystic, can say misto. Oh, misto. You know,
I do love the caffeine, though. I don't know if that will do the trick, but I'll try it. Good recommendation.
You can add a shot of, I think. What? Espresso? Espresso, yeah, there you go. All right.
Trucker, coffee, right? All right. There we go.
All right, now that we are fueled up with some coffee, Amanda, what song would you crank up to the max to fuel you up and launch your day?
There's this song called, I hope you're happy by blue October. It's very peppy. It gets my little step, and it's on my running mix. So happy. Yeah, I hope you're happy. Yep, have
you heard that one? Katie? I haven't. I might have to listen to on the way home now to
do it. It's so
much fun. So I just got to be honest. Like, you totally shocked me, because I walked by your room often, and I didn't know what song was going to be, but I had a feeling it was going to be a certain artist. And like you totally like took a little right turn for those of you a Swifty the fact that that wasn't a tailor song, I'm kind of on the floor right now.
Kevin, you look shocked.
All right. Well, we aren't here to talk about music, although that's fun, we are talking about complex texts, and I think we're ready to dive into our topic for today. Amanda, share with our listeners for a minute what has teaching life looked like for you with El education.
Um, I piloted el about four years ago with one of my teammates, and we were asked to pilot this new program, and we were a little on the fence, and then we met Kevin for the first time, and we sat down with them, and he was very real, and he said, You know, it's a heart like, it's gonna be a hard, rigorous program. And we're like, okay, we can do this. And then we got into it, and we realized it was very hard, but now we've been living in it for, I think, is our fourth year at Cardinal, and I can say that I would recommend it to other districts as an ELA curriculum. I really enjoy it.
So Amanda, you piloted the 2017 version, and you guys are now in the new edition.
Yes, and there is a big difference between the two, but I feel like we learned a lot from that original like that 2017 and it allowed us to see what el is all about. And that fifth grade module that we piloted was rigorous, but we did learn a lot. And then when we brought it to our team, we were able to support, you know, our team with that, and then get the new version, which is a bit more rigorous than the other one, but I really like it.
Yeah, there are some similarities between the two versions, and there are some differences. Yes, too, I agree. So, speaking of both versions, both versions have these anchor texts, these complex texts. In some cases, they're the same. In some cases, depending, you know, if you have the updated modules, there are some new topics. So there might be some new and stupid as you think about the ones in fifth grade that you've interacted with, and you compare that with the definition that Katie talked about and some of the characteristics that Yale used to identify some of these complex texts. Do you see those connected as you think about the text that you and your learners have used?
As Katie was reading the criteria for complex texts, I was checking off each one mentally. We read Esperanza Rising and the UDHR in fifth grade for Module One, both of those meet all of those criteria. You know, they're enriched the vocabulary. They meet the standards. What was, what was that fourth one for the criteria?
That one, what was standards and then complexity that really build that literacy
muscle, yes, and that's what I want, yes, the literacy muscle. And then the old version has rain forest for Module Two, but we've shifted to the Explorer option, and now we are in investigative journalism. And that text definitely marks all of those. We see their muscles contracting all day long, and that interest, right? Yes, oh, they love they love it like I'm learning and they're learning, and you can see them so they're like, asking questions all day long when we're reading it. And then that is what you want. Like, you don't want kids sitting and just listening to you. You want them asking questions.
Absolutely, that shows engagement. Yes,
I love that.
So you had mentioned the story of us jumping into this work four years ago, yes, and sitting with you and a colleague and having conversations about what you noticed, and Katie and I have often talked about some of the comments that and conversations we've had with other teachers around this resource, and one of the things we hear often are Kevin, these texts are too hard for our learners. I think, as we continue this conversation, to just pause and name that right at the beginning, I was in the purple book again, as we call it, the other day, and I read this quote, I want to read it to you, and then I'm going to pause and give you the chance to think and then share what you what is your response as you hear this quote. Okay, so here's the quote. Says we often hear a concern from teachers that close reading of complex texts is too difficult for their students. Many find themselves rescuing students who struggle. This is a natural instinct, but keeping in mind our commitment to equity and excellence for all students, as well as the value of productive struggle, we encourage you to let the practice take hold and give your students a chance to surprise you, the first key to success with close reading for teachers is to check in with yourself about your mindset. Did you hear that? What does that make you think?
Well, I can tell you that my mindset has shifted from when I first started el because I had that, that mindset of, this is too hard, we even came to you and said, Kevin Esperanza Rising and the UDHR is too hard for our fifth graders, yep. And so that first year, we struggled with it. And then the second year, when we brought it to our team and we were working together, the close reads and the vocabulary breakdown and everything are the students were able to read it with our help. And that complexity, I think that the students were able to, you know, understand it with our help. But if I would have kept that mindset of, it's too hard, and let's just read it out loud and tell them what they're supposed to understand. That would have done Zero good for the students and for us, yes, but allowing them to just read it and then, all right, I'm going to help you along with that. That's kind of like the shift you have to kind of go right the mindset of the students can do it. Yeah. The students can read it. It's hard. It's supposed to be hard.
And we're going to get into some of the details of working with complex text and more questions about what your experience has been. But Katie and I both talked about, I wonder if we just start with the mindset question, because as we get into the details, if you find yourself as a listener, saying to yourself, This is too hard for my kids. Know you're in good company. Yes, because others of us have thought that, and I think that's what's important to about having you at the table today, is to name yes, you might feel that, and that's okay. And here is how my mindset changed, and here's my experience today, and that's what this whole podcast is going to be about, but for you to name and just be transparent about how your mindset has changed, I think is is valuable to our listeners to hear that at the start of this conversation today,
my mindset definitely changed from the beginning to now. I definitely grew as a teacher, because I was very closed off, and I was like, There's no way we can do this. I mean, but I think that I've grown a lot, and I think that that's what people just have to remember. You definitely want to grow with it and just allow yourself
to go with the process. Yes,
one more quote from the purple book,
one more quote to read. Love of these quotes,
and this is about why complex text in the first place. And this quote says in the younger grades. And I think this could be true for all grades. Most standards require deep thinking. For this reason, a large portion of the text using the module lessons are above the quantitative complexity of text. Students can read by themselves. It is difficult to do deep thinking with the short control text that most kindergarten and first grade and I would say older grades too can read on their own. I mean, we're not going to do deep thinking with Junie B Jones, right. No, no, not. So we have these deep, more complex text and it'll interesting to talk about with you, Amanda, like what you've experienced with that. And so we're gonna get into this conversation of what has your experience been like as you've walked alongside learners and the complex texts. So you said it, it lived in the close reading. Can you, like, share what that experience is like in fifth grade? Like, if you think about how the close read is rolled out in fifth grade, what does that look like?
Well, for us, our texts are pretty large, and so, like, realistically, we can't read the entire Esperanza Rising book in class. So what el does is it takes apart each section that we actually need, and then they break it down into close reads. And so we really dive into the the intentionality of what the lesson is looking for us, and then we read it with the students. But then we want the students to read it by themselves, and so we have them read it, and then we read it whole group, and then we really break it down. And so it's going to be hard. And I, I struggled with that at the beginning, I'm like, you know, I really want to just read it and tell them what they want to do. But with the close reads, we read it whole group, and then with the partner, and then they're the whole intention is that they're able to read it by themselves and take out what they need. And so they're gonna hurt a little bit, your brain's gonna hurt a little bit, and that's okay, right? Well, it
goes back to building that muscle, yes, right? And so it does need to hurt a little bit, yeah, because then we know they're working it out, yes. And I always
tell my fifth graders, you're supposed to hurt a little bit like you're when you're learning. When you're learning, you're gonna hurt because that means that the muscles are working and you're learning something. If it was easy, then you wouldn't. You would just be like, Oh, okay, let's go and right, that would be it.
And close reading might be new for somebody. Yes. I mean, this idea of close reading is that you are taking a text, like a complex text, and you are looking at it closely, like with a magnifying glass, and you're looking at pieces of it, and you're taking those pieces that have complicated vocabulary, maybe complicated language structures, and you're zooming in on part of those, maybe with a partner at first, or maybe with a group. And you're you're diving into, what does this mean? Along with notating some of those thoughts as you're going through, and you had mentioned part of that too, like that, that's part of the scaffold of guiding kids through this text that it is above their level, one of the ways they do that is that close read and chunking it into small pieces and grappling through some of that work as a group,
yes, and I think it's effective, because when they are able to close read the very smaller portions, as we dive into larger portions, they're able to do that themselves, because they'll look at what they're looking for in those larger pieces that we're reading. And then you can hear the students having conversations. Oh, this is like. What we read before, the vocabulary is like what we read before. And so then I think the application it works right, because they we read it three or four times, and when you read something over and over again, it's going to click.
Another thing that's embedded in this work is the repetition of reading this text over and over again. It's introduced by the teacher through read aloud yes and K through two, that a lot of that read aloud structure continues, but as you get into grades three and higher, some of that reading Rereading is with a partner or individually to get some of that deeper meaning, yes,
all right, so we just, you know, talked about that close reading. What are some other scaffolds that are built into El to support that complex text?
There's a lot of partner talk, and so that requires students to move, and that's very, very important with El, because it's such a rigorous and it's so heavy mentally that getting getting them up for just two or three minutes. So I just tell them to take their workbook, stand up and find someone that has the same pair of shoes as them, same color pants. And then they take that and they have a conversation with one other person, and they just choose Partner A, Partner B. And I do that at least two to three times every el session. And so they're talking to somebody different than who they sit
by. That is so good.
It is really good, and it connects to the episode we did with student talk protocols, and the importance, like you shared Amanda, of getting kids up and talking and sharing ideas and just building more of that background knowledge from each
other, not just for engagement, because, yes, kids need to get up and move and they need to stretch, and their brains are being squeezed, but it also is another scaffolded support as they process the meaning of this complex text with another person. What are some of the protocols that you use often for them?
Well, the getting up and moving around, talking, and then they also, there's one where they do the triad, you know, like, where they find and then they pick different points. So they're not talking about the same thing, but they find three different things and they share it. So then you say, like, Partner A, talk about this. Partner B, talk about this. And then they come together, and then they have to share to the whole class. So there is accountability on that too, because they have to share what their partner said, Yes. And so then there's another point of view, because not only do you have to share your point of view, you have to be able to reword what somebody else said that is applicable to what we're talking about. To build that knowledge.
Talk about listening Yes, to a really good listener, and that's that's hard for adults sometimes. So building that in and giving kids practice
exactly, and then being able to apply it to what we're learning. Right? This applies to investigative journalism, to the human rights
you had said earlier about the note catcher and working with partners and in them, as they're going through small chunks, they notice connections to some of the other small chunks that they did earlier, and that they just felt like they were successful. Yes, it made me think of our conversation a few minutes ago about your change in mindset, about working with these challenging text and I wonder what you've noticed with students like you know, for some of our students, this idea of grappling with text and getting having a text in front of them were, oh, man, this is tough. What were some of your strategies that you put in place as the leader of that classroom to get them in that mindset change for grappling with text that they might not be able to read independently.
I think that just really leaning in towards partner reading, you know, if they're reading with a stronger person, and then being able to read that out loud, I think just reading out loud the first time, and then having them go away with the partner and reading it again, then they feel that success. And so then when they have to go read something individually or independently, they have more, I don't know, like background knowledge or a little bit more about the topic. But then when they're reading it, they don't feel like they're being unsuccessful. But then, with the note catchers as well, they have all the notes with them from the previous so let's say right now we're reading chapter paragraphs one and two, they already have that filled out. So then when they go to do paragraphs three through five with the partner, they already have that success with one and two. They know Right? Because they see what they're supposed to do the outline, and we've done it together. So then I think el does a really good job with that, because as we move from each module with each unit, the note catcher never changes. And so it's something that they feel success with from second to third to fourth to fifth grade. And we're seeing that with our fifth graders right now. They say, Oh yeah, note catchers from fourth grade. We did that. And so. So then it's not even like a new thing for them.
So that consistency yes is important from grade levels, yes.
And I think that that already builds their confidence, because they're like, even though this is hard, we know the process. And I think that's a big thing, right, knowing the process, because even as adults, if we know the process, we can at least apply it to something new well,
because then I'm not thinking about what I'm supposed to be doing and the content. Already know what I'm supposed to be doing. Now I can just think about that. The content,
yes, the text itself, right? And just breaking that down with my partner, yes, yeah.
And you mentioned grouping your kids, yes. So do you it sounds like you're very intentional on that partner reading, yes.
So I have a push in special ed teacher, resource room, teacher, and so sometimes we look at each other and we're like, okay, these two students need to be together. Other times I'll do popsicle sticks, but that's only if I know that we're really comfortable. We've really done the language dive. We've done the close read, I can send them off with, like, unintentional partnerships, but yes, other times when I'm doing it, I'm like, Oh, you're going to be together. You're going to be together. And that, I think, forward planning, though, you have to be able to look at that and know that that's what you're going to do.
So Scott, that's another scaffold that you can put in to help them feel successful, yeah, to
grapple, and that's really important with this program. You want them to feel that success, for them to want to continue doing it and to feel good about it.
You said something in the last few seconds, too, that might have caught somebody's attention. You said, your room is a like a push in room, yes. So you have, you know, kids who are identified as with an IEP, yes, that are in your room intentionally, not just a few, no, a larger population of your room. Yep, are kids that have been identified with an IEP. Yes. Somebody might be wondering, here we have this resource, we're saying, causes kids to grapple with texts that are are challenging on purpose, and now you have a room where maybe a third or a half of kids have some needs. Yes, though, you have a push and support, like, talk to us about, how does that work?
Well, over the course of the last like four years that we've had it, I've always had a push in resource room teacher, and so we are really intentional with that planning. But we were worried about the special ed students at first, but then as we worked through Module One the first couple of years, we realized that with all of the scaffolds and the differentiation and the intentionality in our planning. We had special ed kids that were just working alongside our Gen Ed kids, writing monologs, writing summaries, reading the text, the enriched text, the rigorous text, with our you would never know. If you walked into a room, you would not know who are the general ed students and who are the special ed students, you wouldn't it's not like we have them grouped together. They're just, you know, sprinkled in.
Yes, I agree with that, because I had the privilege of being in Amanda's room, and I don't think I knew that going in and even being in there just was so cohesive. All the kids were grappling with this text. I had no idea until I debriefed with Amanda and found that out. I was so shocked at how cohesive it was that all kids were accessing these complex
text and that is, that's the beauty of it, right? Like it's you're grappling, and it's rigorous, but we can all do it. You just have to have that mind, that shift.
I mean, the 2017 version after that, at the end of module one, they were writing monologs that they had to perform, yes. And I remember going down to, you know, the performance where these kids were, your students were reading these monologs out loud. And the confidence yes I saw in the students I knew, yeah, had an IEP Yes, and they it wasn't like they were excited yes and they got to access, I mean, they felt, I mean, sometimes our learners who are pulled out or part of a special ed room don't feel like they're part of with their peers. And now you set this up with some of the attention that these kids not only are accessing these grade level texts with rigor, they are actually producing the same product and celebrating, and their confidence was just through
the roof. Yes, yes. And that's, that's what I love about it. Like, at the beginning, I would not have said that, but now, like I can see that success, and that's the amazing part is that anybody has, everybody has access to it, and with the right amount of work, the hard work, they're going to be successful, regardless of an IEP or not.
So these, the topic today is complex text, and we're talking about, I mean, this just proves the point. Even not. It's just our Gen Ed students, but our. Special education students can, yes, access these complex texts and be successful. Yes, you may need to repeat something you said earlier, but for somebody out there who's listening and just they hear that, and they're like, What is the secret to that? Because I have a similar situation, like, what is the secret to that?
You just have to you trust the process, trust El, trust your team. And really work like hand in hand, if you have a resource room teacher, talk to them, communicate and your team. And we have we, you know, we're lucky. We have Kevin, so who comes in and works with us, with El and in our grade level crew, we like we do the backwards plan, or the forward plan. I know you call it the forward planning. So we look at the assessments, and we work backwards, and so we're able to make those adjustments, but just trust the process and know that it's gonna work, and it's gonna take, you know, positivity. I always tell everybody, just be positive. You're it's gonna it's gonna work.
Part of it is the mindset. It is the mindset, yes, do I to stop back and ask yourself, Do I believe kids can do this? Yes, right? And if you answer no, and you might keep that totally to yourself, be aware of that, because that will influence what you do in your classroom, for sure, to shift that and say, Okay, I'm going to just be honest, and I'm going to start, I'm going to shift, and I'm going to start with the assumption kids can Yep, and it's going to be a short I'm going to have to grapple through this too, yep. And then the other thing you said was trust the process. Give a detail to that. What would be an example of trusting the process?
I'll give you an example. So when we first started with El, and they were like, we were looking at the lesson, and it said, read article 13 of the UDHR, which is the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and and then compare it to Esperanza Rising, which is, you know, a level that's a very rigorous book. I had never heard of the UDHR prior to teaching El. And then they wanted the kids to write a summary comparing the two, and I said, there is no way. I don't even know how to teach this. I don't even know what it is. So I'm like, well, that's a problem. I can't let the kids know that, because then we're nobody's gonna get anything done. So I really had to think, okay, we can do this, right? So the first year, it was a struggle, but the second year, we learned, right? And we did the note catchers, and we did graphic organizers. And by golly, like the first two months, we had kids writing the summary by themselves, special ed kids, everyone, we were all writing it. And so I think just knowing that it's gonna it's gonna work, but you have to just try. I always just tell people, just trust it. Just trust it. I didn't at first, but I did. I learned to trust it.
If you see your kids grappling through some of it, that's normal, yes, trust it. Yes. Trust the scat. You know, the process of close reading, getting into the complex text, they can do it. Yes.
And you can say out loud to the kids, this is hard. It's gonna be hard. It's hard for me, and it's gonna be hard for you. And own up, own that like to the kids, and I think they like hearing that saying, Oh, my teacher even thinks this art, yes. So if it's hard for me, it's okay. It's like a challenge we need. Yeah, yes. And it's they like that. They like to hear when I make a mistake or when it's hard for me, because they think we are really perfect. They think that their teachers know everything. They say that all the time. And so then for us to say we don't know it, it makes us very real to them, right? And so then they are like sitting there going, I can say to miss. JM, this is hard because she she also said it's hard. And so I think that builds that rapport, right?
So, and a great opportunity to allow their mind set to change. Yes to say, Listen, this is going to be a good challenge. Like this is going to be tough, but we can do it yes. And you know, you had said earlier before we started recording. Like, sometimes you'll say to your kids, I think sometimes your minds are going to hurt, or something like that. To say, our minds are going to hurt. On this one, maybe we're going to start sweating, but you know, we're going to do it. And then you shared, what was your response from your kids?
They're just like, Okay, well, if it's hard for me, it's hard for Miss Jay and like, it's gonna let's I don't want my brain to hurt, but let's go for it. And sometimes the kids are like, I don't want it to hurt today. Mr. Chan, sorry, I'm gonna leave we say that. But I think if we show excitement, I've learned that with my fifth graders, if I look like I'm scared, or if I'm not all about the lesson, they feed on that, yep, but as soon as I'm like, Oh, great, you guys, I'm so excited, and they're like, Whoa, we're excited. So I think it's just they feed off of us, and we just have to remember that absolutely,
and they like the over, I mean, the beat, feel successful that they did it at the end, like, Oh, that was work, but we did it Yes, and to celebrate that yes, part of it too.
It is when you see, like a kid sit there and say, Oh, this is hard. And then you just leave them be, walk away for five minutes, and then you come back and they're like, Miss J and I got it. That that look and that success, they like, will treasure that, and they'll be like, I want that feeling back. It builds confidence, yes, and they want to feel it again, absolutely.
So we talked about complex text, what they are, where they live, and how they connect to close reading, and students grappling, and sometimes us grappling with it as well, and the benefits and the outcomes we've seen from that, I wonder, as we think about our conversation today, you know Amanda, as we're kind of wrapping some things up, as you think about our listeners, some who may be jumping into El education for the first time, and others who have been using this curriculum for years, if you can invite them to be mindful of one thing when working with complex text. What small step would you invite them to consider?
I think first and foremost is that just trust that your kids can read it with you like allow them to do the struggle at first. Don't feed it. Don't give them everything they're supposed to have, because you're not doing them any service for that. But I mean that doesn't mean sitting there and letting them, like cry after 10 minutes, just kind of walk away, let walk around and see how it's going and then read the room, but just kind of allow that time. Because I think oftentimes, and for me too, at the beginning, I wanted to give them everything they needed to know, because I'm like, we need to get through this lesson, right. But now I know that if I just kind of walk away and let them talk, you'll hear them start having those conversations, and they're like, oh, oh, do you remember when we did this? Let's apply it to this text, and then you can start having those conversation. You just hear it. And so I think just allowing your kids, just let them be, let them be for a few minutes, and then obviously go over and help. But I think just allowing the kids to be is the big thing, and I didn't do that at the beginning. So I can say that for me, I'm right in that same boat with anybody that's like, el is hard. I don't know if I can do complex X. It's too hard for my kids. Just let it be it'll take a year or two, but just let
it be, trust it Yes. Be aware. Let it be Yes. As we close up this episode, we hope you got some fuel in the tank and leave us some fresh energy for the weeks ahead, and we're going to close things off today with high fives and hitchhikers. Here's the cool thing, we have the power to re energize and refuel those around us. So find a colleague. It could be the person next door, it could be the person across the hall, maybe it's in another grade. Find that colleague and give them a high five. Tell them you got this. Remind them you're a rock star and pick them up as a hitchhiker. Invite them to join the conversation and take a seat with us at the table. All the best here and see you Next time on fuel up.